[Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product line

Announcements from Excito
pa
Posts: 308
Joined: 06 Dec 2006, 04:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by pa » 13 Sep 2013, 09:42

Dear all,

Tor and I would just like to make it clear that while we think that there is still a lot of potential in the B3, we realized that sharing focus between new product development and maintaining the B3 was not a good setup, and with hind sight it should have been obvious from the beginning. But we like the B3...

/PA

Ubi
Posts: 1547
Joined: 17 Jul 2007, 09:01

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by Ubi » 13 Sep 2013, 13:06

pa wrote:Dear all,
we think that there is still a lot of potential in the B3
If i could have dime for every time i heard that phrase. In reality, it means exactly dork.

Look PA, I know you mean well and all, but you liking the B3 isnt really helping anybody out here. I suggest you people start talking about solutions, instead of excuses and marketing speak. If you need help, you know how to reach me.

RandomUsername
Posts: 904
Joined: 09 Oct 2009, 18:49

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by RandomUsername » 13 Sep 2013, 13:42

Ubi, I'm curious what problems you need solutions for? From my perspective, my B3 sits in the corner doing its thing and I don't have to worry about it. I don't expect any future updates*. Sure, it would be nice if someone was planning a B4, but that no one is only enough to get me just a little disappointed. The support on the forums is excellent (if a little long-winded when you and Gordon get into it ;) ), so what are you expecting?

*No one expected rolling updates to Debian stable for all eternity did they? I think the updates Excito provided for the B2 were more than anyone could reasonably expect. No company continues to provide updates for products for ever, it's just not economical. Maybe this is down to my experience in the telecoms industry where kit gets installed and is expected to last for 20 years beyond its eol.

Ubi
Posts: 1547
Joined: 17 Jul 2007, 09:01

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by Ubi » 14 Sep 2013, 04:08

I just want to know if the bottleneck is hardware or software. If it is software, then there is no problem, but it does mean people may be pushing for a community fork of BubbaOS. It means we all here know that Excito will not be supplying updates and the community should take care of this. I have *no* problem with this at all (in fact, I think it would be an improvement if Excito remains in the loop with some dev time). But I think it is fair that the community knows what the future will look like so they can have a reasonable expectancy of the support level.

What I expect however, is that the bottleneck is hardware support. That makes it a whole different ballgame as the community cannot step in. If this is so, then again I fully understand and respect Excito management no longer sees a long-term viable business structure in the B*. But it does mean that if your B* breaks, you will not be able to get a new one. For current and future owners of the B* (which indeed very rarely breaks) this information would be pleasant. Not critical, but pleasant.

johannes
Posts: 1467
Joined: 31 Dec 2006, 07:12
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by johannes » 14 Sep 2013, 05:43

Hi guys, just to let you know we are right now considering our options on this now since we learned PA and Tor won't continue. We will naturally honor hw support under warranty, and we do have a running production and sale of B3 that we will continue, that's clear. About the other questions I have some ideas but I need to get them approved internally, we'll update you soon.
/Johannes (Excito co-founder a long time ago, but now I'm just Johannes)

Gordon
Posts: 1315
Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 03:18

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by Gordon » 14 Sep 2013, 11:34

RandomUsername wrote:if a little long-winded when you and Gordon get into it ;)
Now how did I get to be included in this discussion?

In any case I feel that two visions may apply here. One being that if it ain't broke there's no need to fix it and the other wanting to be as much up to date as possible. Most owners will be perfectly okay with the first policy, but those that wish to add new appliances may at some time be forced to get up to date just to install the required software. In that aspect I would be happy if Excito would keep pace with Debian maintaining Squeeze. As far as I'm concerned upgrading to Wheezy could be a community effort and keeping the Bubba management interface would in that case be a pre but not a requirement. Lord knows I changed that much on my B3's already that half of that interface has become useless anyway :lol:

mike_nl
Posts: 49
Joined: 03 Jul 2009, 13:56

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by mike_nl » 05 Oct 2013, 13:56

One question comes up in my thoughts about all the discussions here, because i am a user of B2 and B3.
Unix and Linux fan in my way. Learn and use it...So bubba was allways my first address.

- But now, what's goiung on here?
- Means that all that bubba is dead or will be dead shortly?
- It is better to change my hardware now before i get nothing back for used hardware?

Sorry to be very directly but by money stops every friendship. And i be a friend for a long time...

Ubi
Posts: 1547
Joined: 17 Jul 2007, 09:01

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by Ubi » 05 Oct 2013, 15:27

Theres many theoretical scenarios about Excitos future actions, and we hopefully hear about them some day. The silence is my annoyance.

The good news is that we do not need excito for software dev, because bubba is really fully open source, (in brute contrast to squeezebox which will die when logitech pulls the plug on the controller website). We can fork BubbaOS tomorrow without anything Excito can do , except we need to change the name. Of course it would be better if excito stays as the main drive behind the software dev.

If you go through the threads here youll notice some highly skilled and dedicated developers within the comunity, who have vested interest in the continuation of the b3. So your bubba is alive and kicking, dont worry about it.

Gordon
Posts: 1315
Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 03:18

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by Gordon » 05 Oct 2013, 16:07

Well I guess the big question here is where do you want Bubba to go? What future development are you looking for or what future development of your desktop systems do you expect to get in the way of the current functionality of Bubba?
.
I'm kind of missing the argument of getting return money on hardware. But then I went from XT to 386DX to Xeon to i7, so my old hardware has always been too old to interest even the poorest guy that existed. IMO if you buy a computer it will have dropped half of its value the moment you carry it out of the shop and so if you start thinking about computers as an investment you should never buy one.
.
That said, I bought myself a second B3 during the summer campaign and it looks a lot cheaper than the original one I already got. Of course I did pay less as well, but is this a sign on the wall? Is Excito aborting Bubba? I'm okay with Bubba OS moving into the community, but some clarity at this point would be nice.

Ubi
Posts: 1547
Joined: 17 Jul 2007, 09:01

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by Ubi » 05 Oct 2013, 16:43

Well the introduction of magnetlinks made the original ftd a lot less useful, requiring users to install transmission. Theres a few other examples too, such as the tweaking required on netatalk after each update of osx. For regular users these adaptations may be too difficult.

Gordon
Posts: 1315
Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 03:18

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by Gordon » 06 Oct 2013, 04:58

True. But as we learned ftd is not just for torrenting but also provides the upload capability for file manager, which a true torrent client such as transmission does not provide. So this is about choices and it also only concerns the ones that want to utilize the torrent functionality.

However, you also proved my point about Bubba not really being the culprit but desktop development not maintaining backwards compatibility. In my line of work I see this same argument come by every once in a while. Your software is flawed they tell me and then I ask them why they waited two years to tell me. It suddenly stopped and we didn't do anything they tell me then. To cut a long story short: it always comes down to them installing conflicting software, running a series of Windows updates while ignoring software updates or even having reinstalled the software on a brand new server with a different version of the OS that is unsupported by their version of the software. So do I need to buy new software now? Yes, you do.

mike_nl
Posts: 49
Joined: 03 Jul 2009, 13:56

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by mike_nl » 06 Oct 2013, 07:13

Ubi and Gordon:
You both are right in the case of changings in software and operating systems.
You are right too in the case that we not need excito for further development.

But....
- because i stay true to devs so as excito because they have started a very good thing
- changings are everywhere and who can't or will not follow, will lose the way some day

So, i have to stay open for everything in my live and bubba is, sorry, only a little part of it.
I use bubba for temp store files before they reach the server (virus check, svn, musik, video)
Bubba follows me everyday i a special flight case with all needed hardware to run him.
I am crazy and i know it, but in my day job i have to live with a lot of changes in case
of automation software. Hoho, not siemens, we are B&R Automation ;-).

But....
A good question what i am awaiting from excito for the future. Here it comes:

- for the shop
-- more promoting and possible road shows
--- give the guys who will promote things on the hand
--- hardware, software, folders, the license to use test and or fotos or whatever

-- there are a lot of websites based on totally other things but with server things
--- i am member of more then 3 android dev teams and we have our own software on google play store
--- we promote other apps too to show the user what is possible. As dev you need svn or github

-- get bubba without HDD (bubba 2, bubba 3, and the external eSata housing)

-- the external eSata housing because the price we have to pay in the Netherlands is a joke

-- i think the bubba will cheaper when he will sold without HDD (many possible users i have spoken say that)

-- the WiFi add-on for the old(er) ;-) B2 as stand alone (i know a lot of guys that will pay for it)

- for the software
-- squeeze will not run forever (possible you guys think about a package and not as default on bubba)

-- ftd vs. transmission (personally i prefare ftd about some missing features in transmission)

-- home automation is a feature thing (more and more people working with it)
--- when Bill Gates had have some time he had can learn a lot in my house about home auto mation

- for the hardware
-- possible a faster cpu (arm based quad core ;-)) with more memory
--- sometimes it needs more time as Sample by svn / websvn, own wiki, vnstat, phpsysinfo, more then 10 downloads (uff)

-- the housing is perfect because it is different to others and that is Excito !

-- everybody is playing with the green label based on use less power, excito can get it too to sell more
--- so many users don't know how many less power the bubba series use. That is an amazing argument...

- for the forum
-- possible a howto for git (i did not see it), not only for me, i use it, i mean for other users
--- git becomes very popular in the last years and the most C, C# and Java devs use it

-- sommer and winter special for tools, software or howto's, make it more life

- for the users
-- learn, learn and learn again, the forum will help and it is doing that all the days (thank you to all helpers)

So far my thoughts about excito, bubba and all around it.

PS. Don't shoot me, i am only the or one messanger :D

Gordon
Posts: 1315
Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 03:18

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by Gordon » 06 Oct 2013, 13:25

I think if you'd try to sell Bubba without a HDD, it would move into the segment of Raspberry Pi. And in that case its two gigabit ethernet ports and (e)sata connectors may than prove to be unable to compete with Pi's pricetag.

Ubi
Posts: 1547
Joined: 17 Jul 2007, 09:01

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by Ubi » 06 Oct 2013, 17:23

The B3 still has a much stronger processer despite it being a older than the Pi. For streaming media and such, this actually matters.

86ivar
Posts: 148
Joined: 02 Oct 2010, 11:08

Re: [Cancelled] OpenProducts to take over Excito B3 product

Post by 86ivar » 03 Nov 2013, 04:23

Why dont you want to make the B4? I think the bubba is a good product, considering you dont have to buy wifi router and so on. But nobody wants to buy a 3 year old nas. Stop wasting your time on that V1 thing, you will never beat appletv, chromecast etc etc anyway.

Post Reply