Installation problems with nakes Bubba TWO

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hastalapasta
Posts: 14
Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 04:47

Installation problems with nakes Bubba TWO

Post by hastalapasta » 23 Oct 2008, 09:20

Hi,

I purchased a bubba TWO last week, but I didn't manage to get an image on the naked HDD. I followed the suggestions in the installation manual but my Bubba ended up in a long-short-short flashing sequence after it did read something from the USB stick. I tried 4 sticks of 2 or 3 different types. Same result. The installation pages says something about USB sticks with partitioning table layout. How do I know whether my sticks are compliant to this or not? I have no way to determine what the problem is now: stick(s) or Bubba.

Any one for a working scenario? I don't wanna sound impatient, but if I can't get it up and running soon, I might consider going to a Synology 209+. I simply need the solution to work stable somewhere within the next 2 weeks..
One way I see to solve it would be to mount the SATA-disk in a linux machine and 'dd' the Bubba-two image to the bubba SATA-disk, and then reinstall it in the Bubba TWO housing.

Suggestions and solutions are highly appreciated. Thx!

carl
Posts: 474
Joined: 07 May 2008, 04:41

Re: Installation problems with nakes Bubba TWO

Post by carl » 23 Oct 2008, 09:48

hastalapasta wrote:Hi,

I purchased a bubba TWO last week, but I didn't manage to get an image on the naked HDD. I followed the suggestions in the installation manual but my Bubba ended up in a long-short-short flashing sequence after it did read something from the USB stick. I tried 4 sticks of 2 or 3 different types. Same result. The installation pages says something about USB sticks with partitioning table layout. How do I know whether my sticks are compliant to this or not? I have no way to determine what the problem is now: stick(s) or Bubba.

Any one for a working scenario? I don't wanna sound impatient, but if I can't get it up and running soon, I might consider going to a Synology 209+. I simply need the solution to work stable somewhere within the next 2 weeks..
One way I see to solve it would be to mount the SATA-disk in a linux machine and 'dd' the Bubba-two image to the bubba SATA-disk, and then reinstall it in the Bubba TWO housing.

Suggestions and solutions are highly appreciated. Thx!
The USB stick must be formated with an FAT-32 filesystem, and must be partitioned (sometimes they are not partitioned, and the filesystem is directly on the hardware so to speak).

/Carl
/Carl Fürstenberg, Excito Software Developer
http://www.excito.com
support@excito.com

hastalapasta
Posts: 14
Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 04:47

Re: Installation problems with nakes Bubba TWO

Post by hastalapasta » 23 Oct 2008, 10:25

carl wrote: The USB stick must be formated with an FAT-32 filesystem, and must be partitioned (sometimes they are not partitioned, and the filesystem is directly on the hardware so to speak).
/Carl
The first thing I knew (and did), the second is not described. What is required for the image to get on the stick in the right place and format?
I give it a try with the HP USB formatting tool (see http://gparted.sourceforge.net/liveusb.php).

salaam

carl
Posts: 474
Joined: 07 May 2008, 04:41

Re: Installation problems with nakes Bubba TWO

Post by carl » 23 Oct 2008, 11:20

hastalapasta wrote:
carl wrote: The USB stick must be formated with an FAT-32 filesystem, and must be partitioned (sometimes they are not partitioned, and the filesystem is directly on the hardware so to speak).
/Carl
The first thing I knew (and did), the second is not described. What is required for the image to get on the stick in the right place and format?
I give it a try with the HP USB formatting tool (see http://gparted.sourceforge.net/liveusb.php).

salaam
the HP USB tool can work, but it's something we can't officially support (as it can purge your C:\ drive :)). Otherwise we will soon start selling pre-made USB sticks in the shops, which we also will ship with future no-disk options.

/Carl
/Carl Fürstenberg, Excito Software Developer
http://www.excito.com
support@excito.com

hastalapasta
Posts: 14
Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 04:47

Re: Installation problems with nakes Bubba TWO

Post by hastalapasta » 23 Oct 2008, 17:11

carl wrote:
hastalapasta wrote:
carl wrote: The USB stick must be formated with an FAT-32 filesystem, and must be partitioned (sometimes they are not partitioned, and the filesystem is directly on the hardware so to speak).
/Carl
The first thing I knew (and did), the second is not described. What is required for the image to get on the stick in the right place and format?
I give it a try with the HP USB formatting tool (see http://gparted.sourceforge.net/liveusb.php).

salaam
the HP USB tool can work, but it's something we can't officially support (as it can purge your C:\ drive :)). Otherwise we will soon start selling pre-made USB sticks in the shops, which we also will ship with future no-disk options.

/Carl
Hmm, it didn't make a diff. The result is a pulsating [long ON - short OFF - short ON - short OFF] sequence of the blue bubba LED.

How can I write the image to the Bubba disk in a different way? Like with dd using linux, as suggested earlier?

Still waiting for some suggestions to make it run anytime soon.
Anyone?

jws
Posts: 60
Joined: 16 Oct 2008, 13:33

Re: Installation problems with nakes Bubba TWO

Post by jws » 24 Oct 2008, 06:30

hastalapasta wrote: Still waiting for some suggestions to make it run anytime soon.
Anyone?
Windows XP (maybe other kinds of windows as well) has a program called Computer Management which you can start as follows:

Click Start, click Run, type compmgmt.msc, and then click OK.

Then click on "Disk Management".Then you can create a primary partition (I let it take up the whole 2GB space on my Kingston stick) formatted with FAT32.

Read for details http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309000/

It is also possible to use Linux tools. Make sure you have no filemanager running. Plug in the stick into your Linux computer. Type dmesg. You may see a lot of messages like:

scsi 5:0:0:0: Direct-Access Kingston DataTraveler 2.0 1.00 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2
sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] 3928064 512-byte hardware sectors (2011 MB)
sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off
sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 23 00 00 00
sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] 3928064 512-byte hardware sectors (2011 MB)
sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off
sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 23 00 00 00
sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
sdb: sdb1
sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI removable disk

This shows that you Linux system treats your stick as a SCSI device; in this case as /dev/sdb. Now, as root, you can call fdisk /dev/sdb. Type p to see the list of existing partitions. Type m to see the list of possible commands. My stick already had a partition table, but one of the commands (o) is to create one if it doesn't exist. Then you can add a partition; choose the type to be 'b' (Win95 FAT32). The "l" command (lower case L) gives a list of all possible types. If this is the first partition on your stick it will be (in this example) /dev/sdb1.
You should (I haven't really tried this) now be able to format your partition as FAT32 by calling

mkfs.vfat -F 32 -n KINGSTON /dev/sdb1

(after -n comes the "volume label" that you want; 11 chars max.)

Mount the stick (in my case pulling it out and putting it back automatically mounted the stick under /media/KINGSTON) and unzip the downloaded image into the root directory:

unzip -d /media/KINGSTON b2-install-1.0.zip

This creates a directory called install on your stick. Inside it is a file called bubba.cfg. Edit it, changing the line SETDATETIME=1 to SETDATETIME=0. Otherwise the Bubba will try finding the time through the Internet, but of course nothing about Bubba's Internet connection has been configured yet. You can set the time and date later by hand.

HTH,
JWS

hastalapasta
Posts: 14
Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 04:47

Re: Installation problems with nakes Bubba TWO

Post by hastalapasta » 27 Oct 2008, 07:27

jws wrote: Windows XP (maybe other kinds of windows as well) has a program called Computer Management which you can start as follows:

Click Start, click Run, type compmgmt.msc, and then click OK.

Then click on "Disk Management".Then you can create a primary partition (I let it take up the whole 2GB space on my Kingston stick) formatted with FAT32.
JWS
I used this option in my second attempt already. First one was formatting using the explorer, the third scenario was the one with the HP tool.
I can format all the sticks, but after that, I can't creat a partition on it: it is just one (usable) disk and partitioning is not offered in the menu (greyed out).
jws wrote: Read for details http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309000/

It is also possible to use Linux tools. Make sure you have no filemanager running. Plug in the stick into your Linux computer. Type dmesg. You may see a lot of messages like:
JWS
You describe the scenario where you use linux for formatting and writing to the STICK. I will try this scenario, but my suggestion was merely: can I use linux on my server to install the image on the temp. connected Bubba-HDD (instead of the stick), so I can run the Bubba-SW right after I reinstalled the formatted and configured HDD back into its housing.
jws wrote: <...>
This creates a directory called install on your stick. Inside it is a file called bubba.cfg. Edit it, changing the line SETDATETIME=1 to SETDATETIME=0. Otherwise the Bubba will try finding the time through the Internet, but of course nothing about Bubba's Internet connection has been configured yet. You can set the time and date later by hand.
I tried setting the SETDATETIME option to 0 as well, coz I assumed it might be the reason for the 'freezing' installation process, maybe because of some network issues in my modem-router. There seems to be a difference: it looks like the Bubba keeps reading from the stick now (its LED is on), but after > 1 hr there's still no configured Bubba.

Might the missing partitioning option in the DIskMan. tool point to USB-sticks that are not usable for this task?

davidI
Posts: 49
Joined: 07 Oct 2008, 13:39

Juat a thought ...

Post by davidI » 27 Oct 2008, 08:09

Does the Bubba 2 REQUIRE the usb device to be a flash drive?

It may be that a portable hard disk with a USB interface works just as well ...

MSGA
Posts: 2
Joined: 27 Oct 2008, 09:28

Re: Juat a thought ...

Post by MSGA » 27 Oct 2008, 10:12

davidI wrote:Does the Bubba 2 REQUIRE the usb device to be a flash drive?

It may be that a portable hard disk with a USB interface works just as well ...
I had the same problems with USB stick as hastalapasta, but changed to portable USB disc and it worked out . Installation OK and everything is working
Thanska for the tip
/Mats

hastalapasta
Posts: 14
Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 04:47

Re: Juat a thought ...

Post by hastalapasta » 27 Oct 2008, 11:22

MSGA wrote:
davidI wrote:Does the Bubba 2 REQUIRE the usb device to be a flash drive?

It may be that a portable hard disk with a USB interface works just as well ...
I had the same problems with USB stick as hastalapasta, but changed to portable USB disc and it worked out . Installation OK and everything is working
Thanska for the tip
/Mats
I considered that as well, although moving around 160 GB for just a simple Bubba-installation is sort of a pain in the ass, especially if we consider getting frequent updates... :--)
Funny thing here: exploder tells me I can format it NTFS only, disk man. tells me it is formatted FAT32 instead... Huh?
I give this option one more try today

A network-boot option might also come handy if this USB stuff will stay as tricky as it seems to be. What about using the LAN to probe for a fixed IP server with an image at a fixed location? Say ftp or http://laptopAsAserver/Bubba/image.... or so?

On the other hand: I think a permanent USB boot-solution with a runnable image (instead of writing it to the HDD first) is something I would prefer over anything else: that way, I can keep my HDD with valuable data untouched when updating the system.

jws
Posts: 60
Joined: 16 Oct 2008, 13:33

Re: Installation problems with nakes Bubba TWO

Post by jws » 27 Oct 2008, 12:07

hastalapasta wrote: I can format all the sticks, but after that, I can't creat a partition on it: it is just one (usable) disk and partitioning is not offered in the menu (greyed out).
Formatting comes AFTER partitioning! You can re-partition only after deleting the existing partitions on the stick, which Windows Disk Management allows you to do. Some magical programs can grow and shrink partitions without losing data on them, but this is not the rule. So I'd say: after copying any useful data on the stick to somewhere else, first delete all partitions on the stick by means of Disk Management. I'd guess that in that case, "partitioning" will not remain greyed-out.

Now the Big Question is if Windows also allows you to create a partition TABLE. This is a small area somewhere at the beginning of the disk (in this case stick), inside an area called the Master Boot Record. Maybe it does it automatically. If after deleting all your partitions in Disk Management you are able to create more than one partition (the first being smaller than the size of the entire stick), your stick must have a partition table.

And take heart: I tried both the brutal "wipe everything and re-install" procedure and the more gentle, but enigmatic "rescue procedure" using a stick, and they both work. The big difference is:

== after a successful "wipe everything and reinstall" procedure the LED glows constant after about 10 minutes (depending on disk size).
== after a successful "rescue procedure" the LED keeps flashing.

If everything fails, buy a new stick. My "Kingston" 2 GB stick was only 10 euros.

hastalapasta
Posts: 14
Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 04:47

Re: Installation problems with nakes Bubba TWO

Post by hastalapasta » 27 Oct 2008, 16:01

jws wrote:
hastalapasta wrote: I can format all the sticks, but after that, I can't creat a partition on it: it is just one (usable) disk and partitioning is not offered in the menu (greyed out).
Formatting comes AFTER partitioning! You can re-partition only after deleting the existing partitions on the stick, which Windows Disk Management allows you to do. Some magical programs can grow and shrink partitions without losing data on them, but this is not the rule. So I'd say: after copying any useful data on the stick to somewhere else, first delete all partitions on the stick by means of Disk Management. I'd guess that in that case, "partitioning" will not remain greyed-out.
I don't know what the sources are of the terminology you're using, but I use "formatting" in the reinitialisation sense: in that case it is pretty standard that one starts with this formatting, and once that has been done, you can create one or more partitions on it. Normally, there's no way you can do anything useful with an unformatted hard disk. If your definition of formatting is the "initialisation of partitions" then I think I get what you mean. It wouldn't make sense otherwise: how can I partition a disk when I haven't chosen whether it should be FAT, NTFS or LVM for example?
In any case: whether I've been formatting the stick or not, I can't partition it. (I can't remove any partitions either. There's just 1 disk).


Well, I guess I have to buy a kingston.. ;-)

johannes
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Joined: 31 Dec 2006, 07:12
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Post by johannes » 27 Oct 2008, 16:19

Yes, we have tried partitioning in windows too, doesn't work, that option is always greyed out. Probably it just doesn't work if the usb stick doesn't have any partitions on it from the start, which is exactly the case Bubba Two doesn't handle.

hastalapasta:
PM me, and we'll post you a working USB stick. We are planning to begin shippin them with all no-disk orders within short.

Another option is to use an external hard drive. They always have partition tables, and work perfectly with Bubba Two. Also: Note that you don't have to move your data on your external drive. Just ad the install directory, Bubba Two will read it and won't touch your existing data. (The 'format' step isn't required if you already run FAT32, which you probably do).
/Johannes (Excito co-founder a long time ago, but now I'm just Johannes)

jws
Posts: 60
Joined: 16 Oct 2008, 13:33

Re: Installation problems with nakes Bubba TWO

Post by jws » 27 Oct 2008, 16:45

hastalapasta wrote: I don't know what the sources are of the terminology you're using, but I use "formatting" in the reinitialisation sense.
What you mean is probably "low-level formatting", i.e. making a round piece of iron oxide into a data disk. This is never done nowadays outside factories. It makes something "analog" into something "digital", but a stick is digital by nature, so it does not need low-level formatting, I believe. (But this is just a belief! Don't take my word for it!)

What I meant by "formatting" (and which Microsoft most likely also means) is "making a filesystem on a partition". I.e. initializing FAT's, inodes, whatever is required by the filesystem type that you want.

MSGA
Posts: 2
Joined: 27 Oct 2008, 09:28

Re: Installation problems with nakes Bubba TWO

Post by MSGA » 30 Oct 2008, 17:13

jws wrote:
hastalapasta wrote: I don't know what the sources are of the terminology you're using, but I use "formatting" in the reinitialisation sense.
What you mean is probably "low-level formatting", i.e. making a round piece of iron oxide into a data disk. This is never done nowadays outside factories. It makes something "analog" into something "digital", but a stick is digital by nature, so it does not need low-level formatting, I believe. (But this is just a belief! Don't take my word for it!)

What I meant by "formatting" (and which Microsoft most likely also means) is "making a filesystem on a partition". I.e. initializing FAT's, inodes, whatever is required by the filesystem type that you want.
Since we buy a Bubba Two without disc and the USB stick give us a problem I dont think it is correct to sell a sytem like that. I had the possibility to try to use a minidisc from Trekstor instead of the USB stick and after a tip on this forum it worked. But I spend a week to try the USB several USB sticks. Excito must have a solution for this and one is to deliver a stick with the Bubba Two when you not order a Bubba with disc.
/mats

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